Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon, Accidents RE: Western 2605 In MEX - New Pics #8819177 BY thegoldenargosy - Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:22 am One of the flight attendants survived and is still flying for DL in SLC. This page was generated at 03:03. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westernes_Flight_2605, http://aviation-safety.net/database/?id=19791031-0, http://books.google.com/books?id=8BVpage&q&f=false, http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fod.main/130485/, http://tvnews.vanderbilt.edu/program.pl?ID=57025, http://web.archive.org/web/200910220/blackbox.html, http://www.diecastaircraftforum.com/-tapes-cd.html, http://www.taxiways.de/DC-10/accident/N903WA.html, If this is your first visit, be sure to - paragraph amended at 21:05, 30 December by 173.120.131.243 and 00:00, 31 December 2019 by 173.120.182.80 (unsigned contributions), Bordering on the fantastic Eduardo claims the Mexican police kidnapped him and were trying to force him to sign confessions or affidavits stating the pilots were drunk on liquor he had served them during the flight. Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries, Airport Overviews As Flight 2605 approached Mexico City International Airport, air traffic controllers cleared it for an instrument approach using the ILS of Runway 23L, with an expected landing runway of 23R. The Douglas DC10, even before 1979 suffered multiple hull loses and even for a time, held the accolade of being the aircraft involved in the deadliest air disaster to have occurred at that time. and our What happened was it was 3am, they were all half asleep on the job and descended into the ground, and one main gear happened to come into contact with a closed runway. " I've compiled some thoughts that I've placed under yours that I've read from reports of the accidents, both FAA and ICAO. for about 400 feet on the main landing gear. Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR Crash Recording, Scan this QR code to download the app now. Plenty of people look back on the aircraft with fondness as an iconic piece of 20th century aviation. In the early hours of January 16, 1942, their plane would crash on Potosi Mountain, killing everyone on board. Ironically this hearsay reaches the same conclusion: the pilots were to blame. Western Airlines 2605 is a crash that sticks out in my mind as one of the most mysterious accidents of all time, as comparatively little about the accident itself has been released to the public. It's a plane which certainly has a divided history. Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. Crew fatigue is believe to have been a contributing cause. Western Airlines 2605 is a crash that sticks out in my mind as one of the most mysterious accidents of all time, as comparatively little about the accident itself has been released to the public. What time is it in Saint-Ismier? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpQWYdByNSg, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1DlBRS0PiE. The concern was that both the deal and tourism would be negatively impacted if Mexico took most of the blame for the deadly accident. I have cleaned up the background. You also acknowledge that this forum may be hosted outside your country and you consent to the collection, storage, and processing of your data in the country where this forum is hosted. The ICAO circular makes no mention of this, presumably because it wasn't determined to be a contributing factor. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. France (Isre, Auvergne-Rhne-Alpes): Current local time in & Next time change in Saint-Ismier, Time Zone Europe/Paris (UTC+1). Airliners.net is the leading community for discovering and sharing high-quality aviation photography. Flight 2605's "hydraulic systems" - as far as this contributor is aware - are not discussed in any crash analysis or publication. an average person who is tired. Gilbert probably screamed "Oh Jesus Christ.turn left!" Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries, Airport Overviews Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft, Special Paint Schemes Western Airlines 2605 | CVR With Subtitles - YouTube Your destination for buying luxury property in Saint-Ismier, Auvergne-Rhne-Alpes, France. Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.100.180.19 (talk) 01:38, 17 November 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply], - section created by SquisherDa (talk) at 10:16, 24 October 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], The NTSB seems (from our article) to have believed tht the crew improperly chose to descend below decision height while 'not yet quite' having visual contact with the runway: "In continuing toward 23L below [decision height, 600ft aal], by definition the crew was deviating from their cleared approach". 40th anniversary of Western 2605 - Airliners.net Cause: Crashed into construction equipment during landing on a closed runway or pilot errorAircraft: McDonnell Douglas DC-10-10Operator: Western AirlinesPass. . - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019, The ICAO publication doesn't correlate sounds from the CVR to events as they are happening but the CVR recording of the final moments of this accident is probably the most impressionable record of the event the general public has access to and it may be unclear how the accident was unfolding with just the audio. Well, yeah, but what if they thought the runway they had visual contact with was the correct runway, 23R? It's pilots loved the plane. This thread is the most recent on Western 2605 on this website, so I thought I would add to it from here so that others might follow a google link and learn something as I have about this crash. The single weather condition noted most often with flight 2605 is heavy fog. Both military and civil versions, Blimps / Airships Presumably the "Flying Magazine" article abridged content from 'official' reports and other sources. The plane is surrounded by heavy, dense fog and other than this view into the cockpit there is no visibility. on this tragedy: I think there's a CVR on Airdisaster.com. Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR Recording (October 31st, 1979) More importantly pilot errors occured. However, Flying Magazine is low credibility content in comparison to the official reports, or at least we would expect it to be. This is incorrect information from the control tower at Mexico City (assuming the ICAO circular Section 1.8.2 is accurate). Discover your dream home among our modern houses, penthouses and. Apparently the official transcript is not quite correct so I'll put my interpretation in the captions. I'd like to reply to yours as well. (?) Its pilots loved the plane. long work days or from shift changes. Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.61.11.102 (talk) 22:05, 4 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply], - section created (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.148.69 at 17:40, 24 November 2019, This section states that the pilot saw the dump truck and then exclaimed "..Jesus Christ". I remember flying into that airport a couple months later. (WARNING, DISTURBING) Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR Recording October 31, 1979. They had "stayed on the correct flight path to Runway 23 Right for most of the time between the outer marker "Metro Eco" and [the] Airport, and only deviated to the runway closed to traffic (23 Left) when at a height of (600 feet) above the ground during .. final approach": it looks as if they were intending to maintain a lateral separation from the ILS path (to 23L) so as to keep them in line to come straight in to 23R. (any of them?) We know that runway 23L was closed to traffic that day, as the runway was being resurfaced. has he? The right landing gear was momentarily on its way to impacting the loaded dump truck. The CVR has been widely available for years. Include these with the other problems he would Gilbert had limited or no control over the plane after the collision with the dump truck. Aircraft flying government officials, Helicopters comments sorted by Best Top New Controversial Q&A Add a Comment . The fact that Reichel didn't call out altitude may not have mattered although it was something he was assigned to do but doesn't necessarily mean this caused the accident or that the crew was unaware of their altitude: - unsigned contribution at 20:24 by 68.33.74.40, split out as new para at 20:30 and amended at 20:32 by 173.120.246.108 (unsigned contributions), 25 December 2019, The crew sounded wide awake to me. These recordings always give me the heebie-jeebies. Information wanted on Western Airlines flight 2605. This is blather with ludicrous speculation. Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries, Airport Overviews tion was a concern in all accident. The 2nd officer, Reichel, most likely did not call out altitude on approach. Western Airlines Flight 2605, nicknamed the "Night Owl", was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles, California, to Mexico City, Mexico. that he owned a T-6 and flew for fun, made such a mistake? 296 68 68 comments Best Add a Comment [deleted] 9 yr. ago [removed] cheekske 9 yr. ago The scream at 1:13 is what gets me 16 XxmsmaliciousxX 9 yr. ago That was terrifying and haunting. (Right?) I had to read it again to make clear they were to the left of 23L also!! With the U.S. Air Force and Both military and civil versions, Blimps / Airships Flight 2605 remains the deadliest air accident to have occurred in Mexico City. Western Airlines Flight 2605 was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles to Mexico City. His logically flimsy conclusions sound authoritative only because he uses loaded terms like law and regulation. We are looking into the cockpit through the cockpit windows to the pilots seated just inside. From Appendix F Aeronautical Decision Making Cockpit Resource Management: "The right main landing gear was severed and, as it swung aft, it and the destroyed truck wreckage impacted the right inboard flap and aileron which was carried away. Those locks prevent an unbalanced aerodynamic condition in which one wing has more lift than the other. Pilot error but more directly false ILS signal phenomenon. Information wanted on Western Airlines flight 2605 - JetPhotos Western Airlines Flight 2605 Crash With CVR (Cockpit Voice - Reddit By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. as the cause of each accident. Luxury homes for sale in Saint-Ismier, Auvergne-Rhne-Alpes, France We thank you for your support and hope you'll join the largest aviation community on the web. Western Airlines Flight 2605 LAX-MEX '79 - Airliners.net Might be good to add that detail. All three crew agreed they were on the wrong side 23L but of course it was at a point too late. The Originals Boutique, Htel Les Trois Roses, Grenoble Meyla. Accident, incident and crash related photos, Air to Air By using the words well known problem, this means historically in the time period of the accident, but also today in 2020, especially when not hand flying in planes more advanced and more automated than the DC-10-10 that Gilbert was hand flying in 1979. Following 2605's destruction, it was discovered the ILS system was indeed not acccurate at Mexico City, not because of moving construction equipment obviously, but just off and inaccurate by degrees. Flight 2605 remains the deadliest air accident to have occurred in Mexico City. Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior, Cargo Aircraft This wreckage continued aft, tearing away all Because as with the case of this accident, there really wasnt any wrong with the plane. - section created at 20:35, 1 January 2020 (unsigned contribution) by 73.61.9.109, There are historical examples of flights that end in accidents where pilot(s) will try to land in dangerous conditions, crosswinds or penetrate dangerous storm systems. 72 of the 88 people on board, plus 1 person on the ground, were killed. Do we know this is correct? At that point, the right main gear lifted off the : 50 YEARS (FO IS UNKNOWN) He was defending his company by blaming the pilots. I replied to one post below that had the time of day wrong concerning the accident. The separation also caused an electrical power failure, critically affecting cockpit indicators. The aircraft speed decreased from 136 knots to 128 knots. I haven't been able to find more info. - paragraph added at 00:00, 31 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.182.80, His credibility has been questioned but he is persuasive. There's no evidence any of the pilots were disciplined by Western Airlines. Our guests praise the breakfast and the helpful staff in . Western Airlines Flight 2605 Crash With CVR (Cockpit Voice Recorder) Vintage news cast with low volume CVR but informational at beginning Louder CVR with no introduction LAST WORDS SAID BY CAPTAIN: JESUS CHRIST! . 1979 was the planes deadliest year. The CVR is described as sustaining damage in this report, DOT/FAA/PM-86/46 "Aeronautical Decision Making -Cockpit Resource Management": "The voice recorder was recovered from the wreckage; however, the unit had been pierced. ground and simultaneously struck i dump truck loaded with gravel. Most reports I've read seem to state that Pilot Gilbert saw the truck. Western Airlines 2605 CVR, Much Clearer Vocals, with Actually - YouTube In that accident investigators warned of the danger of trusting ILS signals without checking raw height/distance data. For more information, please see our For additional details, refer to our Privacy Policy. The sad thing about this accident is that not one of 7 years ago (WARNING, DISTURBING) Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR Recording October 31, 1979. Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft, Special Paint Schemes Moreover the CEO of Western was not confused by the actions of one of his pilots even though he publicly stated that he was. I would think so. Population: 6,630 People Still, Western Airlines Flight 2605 contributed to that long list of accidents on October 31st, 1979.Sources:http://docplayer.net/docview/24/2551935/#file=/storage/24/2551935/2551935.pdfhttps://www.baaa-acro.com/sites/default/files/2019-10/N903WA.pdfhttps://tailstrike.com/media/4sml0qsq/311079.pdfhttps://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19791031-0https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=8BVI6sNpT4wC\u0026pg=PA100\u0026redir_esc=y#v=onepage\u0026q\u0026f=falsehttps://www.baaa-acro.com/crash/crash-douglas-dc-10-10-mexico-city-73-killedhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0xxYamy39s\u0026t=71s\u0026ab_channel=TheFlightChannelhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z1G31Ik2no\u0026ab_channel=DisasterOnlinehttps://www.baaa-acro.com/crash/crash-douglas-dc-10-10-mexico-city-73-killed NASA setting the pace, maybe there is hope for a change on I don't know what the comment above means when it says the CVR contained "the required information." What your father is saying, used to circulate for a while, but the CVR didn't support it. This is all over youtube for example in a number of videos. Aircraft flying government officials, Helicopters I can't remember where I read the article, but it was very interesting. They will have been expecting something like 2-3 miles visibility (per the 05:00 weather report). - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019, Finally, I have read no analysis of the final statement that one of the 3 man crew says loudly under Gilbert's screams. TNVC/NGI Giveaway: 15 winners with over $7000 worth of prizes!! So the Government was clearly crashing its own credibility by the 1980s. Gilbert, Reichel and Walsh flew the Night Owl route on October 31 as a back up crew. I'm trying to find reliable online information to expand on the very short account of Western Airlines flight 2605 which landed on the wrong runway at Mexico City airport on 31 October 1979 and burst into flames after hitting construction equipment. According to the research done by Dr. Zeller and McNorton, at the This is most certainly not what happened. The scenario adds up to a sequence of events that is just Its a red herring to say they landed on the wrong runway. A periodical featuring an advertisement of the L1011 depicts a perspective just off the nose of the aircraft. LAST WORDS ON FLIGHT: BRACE CHARLES! He discredits ALPAs conclusions. Pilot Gilbert got on the power (100%) before the impact with the truck and after Reichel calmly called to go around after everyone agreed they were at 23L. https://www.upi.com/Archives/1989/09/16/DC-10-fleet-to-undergo-hydraulic-system-changes, https://www.designnews.com/aerospace/designed-disaster-dc-10-airliner-part-4, https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1979/08/04/engineer-balks-at-changes-in-critical-dc10-systems, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_DC-10, https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a205115.pdf Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.153.142.87 (talk) 00:18, 18 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]. Ernst Reichel, the second officer, did not call out altitude descent during a crucial stage of landing - this fact has been mentioned in crash reports as a key contributor to the disaster. the ground at any time. Aircraft type McDonnell Douglas DC-10-10Operator Western AirlinesRegistration N903WAFlight origin Los Angeles Int'l AirportLos Angeles, California, United St. I'd like to reply to yours as well. After the aircraft initially touched down, it continued along the ground Western Airlines Flight 2605 (CVR Recording/Slightly Clearer - YouTube We'll never know because of the damage to the CVR: "The possibility exists that the callouts were made but erased in that portion of the CVR tape; however, it is highly unlikely that this was accomplished. A part of the CVR is widely available online. The hydraulic system may have been destroyed. involved in all four, contributing to two accidents as deter 2012-06-29, 13:43. Landing on the Wrong Runway (Western Airlines Flight 2605 - YouTube - paragraph split at 01:17, 1 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.15.41, Reading the "Jumpseat: A Tale of Twisted Fate" book from surviving flight attendant Eduardo Valenciana - he wrote of a violent impact and then a dramatic attempt at a climb with full power - note, not two impacts but one. The same sort of conditions facing Gilbert, Reichel and Walsh in Mexico City in '79: https://www.airlinereporter.com/2015/09/requiem-trijet-masterpiece-lockheed-l-1011-tristar/tristar-can-land-itself/, - section created at 21:25, 4 January 2020 (unsigned contribution) by 73.61.11.230, George B. Parker, Associate Professor of Safety Institute of Safety and Systems Management University of Southern California contributed the following paper to the "Proceedings of the Twelfth International Seminar of the International Society of Air Safety Investigators" which was a conference (?) If you found this video to be interesting, be sure to subscribe as there is a new video every Saturday. that would have shown the ILS inaccuracy. Airport overviews from the air or ground, Tails and Winglets (Ironically the poorly designed cargo door was not immediately changed.). Audio recording of Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR. Presumably this is the point of destruction of the plane. CVR of Western Airlines 2605, terrifying : r/CrazyFuckingVideos - Reddit On top of all this, the It is strange. AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. If anyone is familiar with this accident, you'll understand why I'm so curious about it. Cookie Notice Follow. All of them involved pilot fatigue, either from Walsh (?) Western Airlines Flight 2605, nicknamed the "Night Owl", was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles, California, to Mexico City, Mexico. Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin, Night Photos Maybe if the pilot saw obstructions ahead. The event is the third-deadliest aviation accident to occur on Mexican soil after the crashes of two Boeing 727s: the 1969 crash of Mexicana de Aviacin Flight 704 and Mexicana de Aviacin Flight 940 in 1986. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. He seems to remember that soon after this the planes nose rose and the engines were screaming. how about the poor general aviation pilot, what chance (WARNING, DISTURBING) Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR Recording October 31, 1979. Cockpit crew coordina Western Airlines Flight 2605 Crash With CVR (Cockpit Voice Recorder). In addition to airline bankruptcies, and industry consolidation, the Airline Deregulation Act meant open war on airline labor including pilots although it is rarely described this way. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Report. will not be used to prevent other accidents. Views from inside the cockpit, Aircraft Cabins While searching for the Western Airlines 2605, Mexico City, 1979 accident I discovered that there is nothing at all on the web. the flight path in reaction to the unstable localizer course." The impact with the truck didn't destroy the plane, it continued to fly therefore we can assume the pilots would be actively talking (or screaming) until the next impacts and the final impact and their and the plane's destruction. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpQWYdByNSg, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1DlBRS0PiE. Quote copyedited at 21:28, 4 January 2020 (unsigned contribution) by 73.61.11.230: All of these accidents had some common human factors involvement. This behaviour was a contributing cause of the accident, but is completely ignored in the article. Bingo. His flight manager had promised to Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. ", - section created at 20:44, 30 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.131.243, Eduardo Valenciana has written a book containing a fair amount of material dedicated to the flight and the events of the crash: " Jumpseat, A Tale of Twisted Fate". He was concerned about their work and The most common CVR excerpt begins at landing on 23L where Gilbert is asking if "we're clear on the right?". A few years later the public would be told an Air Florida 737 that crashed into a DC bridge was mostly because the pilots weren't from "the North". - paragraph added at 22:43, 29 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.184.130, - section created at 18:41 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.249.251 (+ amended by 68.33.78.69 at 20:09), 25 December 2019, Flying Magazine is commercial journalism. then realised rather late tht they were now on the ILS path so this must be 23L - wrong runway - and they better go around. Valable sur tout le rseau tram et bus TAG. I saw an article some time ago about this flight and there was reference to the captain not have too much confidence in the FO (who was German); so, there appears to have been some tension in the cockpit. Western Airlines immediately lost a number of hubs following deregulation, only to retain Salt Lake City and Los Angeles. I emailed the gracious Mr. Valenciana and he tells me his description of the crash in his book mentions a violent initial impact. Quoting . About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright . check out the. - paragraph added at 20:21 + amended at 20:23, 19 December 2019 (unsigned contributions) by 173.120.214.74, - section created at 15:12, 22 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.124. In less than 10 years Western Airlines would no longer exist. This would certainly result in limited to no control over the aircraft. Flying Magazine is not a credible source. The challenge is being able to discriminate and select what else could be added. 1.5K. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article. Privacy Policy. The DC-10 included no cable backup for the hydraulic-powered flight controls because it was considered nearly impossible for three hydraulic systems to fail during one flight. I have read something that suggests there was a disagreement in the cockpit about matters unrelated to the actual landing stage of the flight. Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests, RE: Western Airlines Flight 2605 LAX-MEX '79. However, this could very well have been the initial touchdown. Western 2605 In MEX - New Pics - Airliners.net In addition, he was having enough of a problem But this may already have long been determined to be the left wheel touchdown - but I haven't read a report specifically stating this yet. From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
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